Mr. KELLEY. I recognize the veto power as one of the executive nnctions which the President may legitimately exercise; and I know that it is exercised under responsibility to Congress and the people. I return, Mr. Speaker, to the debate in the Massachusetts convention: “ Hon. Mr. Strong followed Mr. Bishop and pointed out.the necessitythere is for the 4th section. The power. sayshe, to regulate the elections of our Fedora Representatives must be lodged some where. I know of but 2 bodies wherein it can be lodged thoLegislatures of those ieral Slates and the enerul congress. If the legislative bodies of the totes.w O must be suppose to know at what time and in what place and manner the elections can best beheld should reappoint them. it cannot be supposed that Congress.by the power granted by this section. will alter them; but if the Legislature of a State should refuse to make such regulations. the consequence will be that the Representatives will not be chosenand the General Government Will be LllSSOlVLd. In such casepeangentlemensay that.a powerto real edy the evil is not iiocessar to be lodged somewhere? and where can it be lodge but in Congress? "I will considerits advan c in another respect; we know sir that a negligencein the appointment of rulesia the characteristic of all nations. n this State and since the establishment of our Brcsent constitution. the 1st oficers of government avebeen elected bv lossthan one 10th part of the clectorsin theState. i0also know that our town meetingstorthe choice of officers are generally attendedby an inconsiderable part of the qualifled voters. People attend so much to their private interests that they are apt to neglect this right. 1 aliens have lost their liberties by neglecting their privileges. Conscquently Congres sought to have an interposing power to awaken the people when thus negligent. ven supposin. sir. the provisional clause rug estedbv the wort iy Gentfrom Norton should be aded. would not Congress then be theiudges whether the elections"1 the sovi sral States were constitutional and proper! If so, it will then stand on the someground it now does. It appears evident that theyc must be a general power to"rtsgulatlogeneral elections. Mr. Bishop said the great difficulty with him was. that the power given by the 4th section was unlmiiled and he did not yet. See that any advantage would arise from its being so." "Mr. Cabot. For my owu art I confess that I prize the 4th section as hi las any in the constitution. because[consider I e( mom micbrunch of the national Government – the runch chosen iirimnlzml Ii by the a as intendedtobe achm l:on the Federal t branch which latter is iiotnii immediate representation of the people of America and is not VllDSOllby them. but is a representation of the sovereignt of 1 the individual States and its members dilegate by the several State Legislatures; and i !the.VlurLvegislature: are Mar ed to regulate conclusivelyIlic (lttll0tlu of the democratic brunch, they may. by such an interl ference.1st weaken and at last destroy that check; J they mayalfirlt diminish (Hilla! [matfinally annihilnll i Illa! Control cthe General Government which. The people ought always to have through their immediate rlprr, Motives. As one of the knople. therefore. I repeat 9 t a t in my mind the four! sectionis to be (u hialily “ a: anyin the (bastitulinn. A State Legislature under the influence of their Senators who would have their fullest confidence or under the influence of ambitious or popular characters.“ in times of popular commotion and when fac mnnd spirit run high would introduce such regu asapwoald render the Vlflh of the peopl tniake a insecure and (little eolue. Theymig an unequal and pive i for the partial division of the States into districts for the election of Representatives or they miphl mm dia qimlify one3rd of the electors. Without llieu npom n m Congress the people can haveno remedy. But the 4th section provides a remedy.u controlling power in a Legislature composedof Sens&Reps of 12 States.without the inllucnuo of our commotions and factions. who will hear impar tially and preserve and restorela the peopletheirequal and moral rights of " election. Hon. Mr. white said. we ought to be jealous 0i rulers. All the godly men we read of have failed nay, he would not trust a tlock of Moscoes. If we we up this section, says he. there is nothing left. goppoaethe aware“ should say (he! none should be electors but those worthjifly or 10 opouinla altr ling. cannot they do it! cs. said be. they can and if any law or Sulllldlll] to MrParsons can beat me. out of it. will give him ten guincus. Mr. J. C.Jones said it was not right to argue the possibility q the abused anynicamre against its adoption, The power granted to Congress by the 4th section is a necessary power. It will iroyide against. Negligence and dongs rowd in. T Sens&Reps of this State. ix". President. one now chosenbya final! mnubrr(ll elector: and t! io likely we shall, prom equally negligent of our Federal cleclinns. Or. sir. a State may refuse to send to Congress its Representatives as RhdIsland has done. Thus we nce its nce casit. To saw that the power may be abused is saying what will apply to all power. The Federal Representatives will represent the people they will be the people arid it is not probable they will abuse themselves.Mr. Jones concluded vnth repeating that the arguments against this power could be urged against any power whatever.“ Judge Sumner proceeded to demonstratethe necessity of the 4th section.the absurdity of thesnpposition that Congress would remove the places of election to remote parts of the States; combatted the idea that Congress would. when chosen.not as badly as possible and concluded by asking. i tawar should take place, (and it was supposable.)if France and Holland should send an army to collect the millions of livres they have lent usin thet impofonr distrcsses and that army should be in possessionof the seat of government of any particular State. (as was the case when Lord Cornwn lis ravaged Carolina.) and that the State Legislature could not appointtheelectors.is not a error to provide for such elections necessary to be edged in the general Congress?" Q i U. C i "Captain Snow. It has beensaid. Mr. President, that there is too much power delegatedto Congress by the section under consideration. I doubt it: I think powerthe hinge on which the whole (lullilllllltion turns." A note is appended to the report by the reporter of that convention. It is as follows: “Several other gentlemen went largely into the debate on the fourt section. which those in favor of it demonstrated to be necessary: 1st. as it may be used to correcta negligence in elections: 2ndly, as it will prevent the dissolution of they Government by designing and refractory States; 3rdly. as it will operate as it checkin favor uf the people “will” any drum"! of the Iltlernl Serial rind icir cluuitilurnlnJl the State Legislatures, to (liprive tltlr people lift irir right of election, and 4thly. as it provides a remedyfor the evil should any State. by lllVll.llonr OllltT cause. not have it in its poorer to appoint n.placewhere the citizens thereof may meet to choose their Federal Representatives." I submit the following from the debates in the NewYork convention, June 25 and 26. 1788: “Hon. Mr. Lansing did not think it right that congress should have the power of prescribing or altering the time. place and manner of holding the elections. He apprehended that git! clause might be so construed as to deprive the totes of an essential right which. in the true deslffl of the Constitution. was to be reserved to them. He therefore wished the clause ini lit beexplained, and proposedfor the purpose the following amendment: "ltcmlucil. (as the OolllnlOIl of the committee.) That nothing in the Constitution new under consideration shall be construed to authorize tbe Congrens to make or alter any regulations in any State respecting the times. places or mannciof holding electionsfor Sen More or Representatives. unless the Legislature of such State shall neglect to make laws or regulations purpose or from any circumstance be inea pubic O making the same and thou onlyuntil the cgisliiturcof such State shall make provision in the pr“lllllets llon. Mr. Jay said that as for as he understood the ideasof the gentl.nii he seemed to harp doubts with respectto this paragraph and feared it might be misconstrued and abused. Ile said that rem y Governmenting: smperfeclunlcu it hall the poicer prucreinp itself. Suppose that by design or acci odleivnetst;he Statesshould neglectto appoint Reiircse nt certainly thereshould be some constitutional remedy for this evil. The obvious mennin of the paragraph was. that ifthis neglect should in to place Congress ould have powei. li, vlaw. to support the tioiurnment:ind prevent the dissolution ofl clnion. He believed this was the design of the Federal convention. lion. R. Morrls suggested that sofar as the people. distinct from on Ltzislaturcs. were concernc in the operation of the Constitution. it was absolutely necessarythat the exnitence of the General Government should not depend for a momenton the will of the State Legislatures. the paper of pernluulmg the Gomrmnent oughlt ob along tuthur fedem R. reseala “Zoe r stherighho/tha people woul been ca l I! drew. the following extracts are from the debates of. the NCarolina convention. July 25, 1788: 1 "Mr. Spencer. B this clauseit is evident that it is in the power offlongress to make any alterations except as to the place of choosing Senators. lhey l may alter the time from 6 to 20 years or to 3ill any time; for theyhaveon unlimiled control our the election of the Ilenrenrnlallpn. It. deprives the people of the very mode of choosingthem. It. Seems nearly to throw the whole power ot election into the hands of Congress. It strics at the mode, time and place of choosing Representatives. It utsall but the place of electing Senators into the ban sof Congress. "Mr. lredell. An occasion may arise when the exercise of this ultimate power in Congress may be necessary. As for instance. if a State should bein; volved in war and its Legislature could not assemble. as was the caseof SCarolina and occasionally of some other States during the late war. It might also be useful for this reason: lost a few powerful States should combine and make regulations concerning elections which mall!:1 no: menuof the electors afnfmr exercised theirria. and tlius injure the community and ooaision great dissatisfaction and it seems natural and proper that every Government should have in itself the meansof its own preservation. Afw of the {treat Staten might combine to prevent the election of Representatives stall and thus a majority might be wanting to do business. “Mr. Spencer. 1 is clause provides that nljoagress may at any time alter such regulations oxce t as to the placesofehoosing Senators. These we a are so 1 vagueand uncertain that it must ultimately destroy the whole liberty of the U.S. It strikes at the very existenceof the States and supersedes the necessit of having them at all.