Mr. SCHENCK. I do not propose to occupy more than ten or 15 minutes, and will afford an opportunity to the Gentfrom Minnesota [Mr. WINDoM] to move the previous question long before the expiration of my hour. Mr. Speaker, if I comprehend the argument of the Gentfrom California [Mr. HIGBY] against the transfer of this Indian Bureau to the Military Dept, it is that we must, in case of such transfer, abandon the whole system of Indian reservations and all attempts to introduce among them the habits of civilized life by teaching them to cultivate the soil and making them, in some degree, self sustaining. Now, sir, I see no such difficulty in the way. If the gentleman will look at the bill he will see that while we propose to transfer this whole matter to the W. Dept, we provide that there shall be detailed officers of the Army. to act as superintendents, agents, and subagents. The duty of such officers, thus acting as agents and sub agents, will be precisely what they are now as provided by law. It is so provided in the bill. Now, what is the difficulty the gentleman foresees? He says that these military gentlemen who will become agents and sub agents will not have a knowledge of agriculture, and therefore will be unable to direct and instruct the Indians in the cultivation of their reservations. Why, sir, in all human probability, they will have as much knowledge of agriculture as the men who now fill these places have. I can say: for myself that I have secured the appointment of 2 Indian agents, and one of them was a physician and the other a lawyer. The men who get these places are those who have suf. ficient political influence to secure an appointment worth $1,500 a year; or, as it will be under this bill, $1, 800. But these agents and sub agents have under them farmers and black smiths to aid them on the reservation; and that system will go on under the War Dept just as it does under the Dept of the nterior. The bureau will be conducted under the existing law authorizing the employment of the men needed to aid the superintendent, whose duties, after all, will be only super visory. That, I think, disposes of the whole objection made by the Gentfrom California, and, as it seems to me, the gentleman must see that no such difficulty can exist. The gentleman is laboring under a misunderstanding in supposing that we propose to wipe out the Present provisions of law. We only propose that military officers shall take supervisory control of these matters, retaining all the laws for Indian reservations just as they now are. Again, the gentleman says that if you adopt the system proposed by the ComIndAffrs there will be by these commissioners a regular inspection at each of these agencies. Well, now the gentleman must certainly admit that if you put this whole matter under military rule the officers detailed to perform these duties will be all the time under rigid inspection. An inspector general of the Army would be sent to each postand garrison, and they will necessarily keep up a strict in spection of the conduct of those officers who may be detailed to perform duty in connection with the Indians. We shall secure, in short, from the head of the Army down, that rigid inspection, accountability, and responsibility on the part of the persons so employed which, it seems to me, we cannot have under any civil administration of this branch of the public service. It is an old and homely proverb that “the proof of the pudding is in the eating.” Now, sir, we did not have these difficulties to anything like the same extent when this whole matter was under the charge of the War dept. Thore were abuses then; there was maladministration then; but I aver as a general fact, shown by the history of Indian affairs in this country, that abuses never arrived at anything like the same height to which they have grown since the management of these affairs was transferred to the Dept of the interior and has become purely a matter of civil administration. What is . condition of things now? The ComIndAffairs, by the very introduction of this bill, wisely intend to adopt some scheme to correct abuses which have grown to be enormous; and if we cannot transfer the whole matter to the Military Dept, I hope some such bill as that the committee have introduced will prevail. I do not object to the effort of the ComIndAffrs to bring about a reform of these abuses by their bill; but it is because I think the whole management of Indian affairs would be better administered by a complete and radical change, putting the entire system under military rule, that F.a substitute for the bill of the committee. Their bill is good so far as it goes, and if the administration of Indian affairs is to be left with a civil dept, then I trust this bill or some other embracing its general principles will be adopted. But I think a still further, greater, more effective and radical case of crushing abuses may be made by wiping out the whole relation of this bureau of Indian affairs to mere civil adminis tration and putting it under strict military rule, oresponsibility, and military accounta ility. Now, sir, the general fact is simply this: we have 2 Depts of the Government having concern with the treatment and care of the Indians: a civil Dept the Dept of the interior and a military Dept. These 2 Depts cannot in the very na ture of things act harmoniously; and what is the consequence?. Upon the civil side your Indian agents, acting in conjunction with the traders, breed wars; if they do not directly and designedly encourage them, they do those things which lead to wars; and the military are only called in at the last moment in order to put these wars down. It is far better that those who have the responsibility of fighting the Indians should have thrown upon them the inducement to keep peace with the Indians by managing them well. In this way there would be complete harmony and entire uniformity of interest on this point. Let the responsibility of keeping the peace, as well as restoring it when broken, be thrown upon those, whose interest it will be that the peace shall not be broken, because then there devolves upon them the work of restoring it by fighting, which of course they do not desire if it can be avoided. Vpon, exery score, therefore, of economy, mp city, of effectiveness, it seems to mee we ought to transfer this bureau. As to the general objection made by the Gentfrom California, [Mr. HIGBY] that this change will not be attended with any economy, surely the gentleman, in making the objection, cannot have considered the subject aright. We pay now a host of officers, agents, sub agents, &c., from the Commissioner down through the whole category of those employed in attending to the affairs of the Indians. If we transfer this ba reau to the control of the War Dept we shall get the services of a class of men who are already in the pay of the Government, whose compensation is not to be increased, upon whom all these duties are to be devolved without cost to the Government beyond the expense to which we are already subjected in keeping up the military establishment of the Government. We shall pay no agents; we shall pay no sub agents; we shall pay no Commissioner; we shall pay nobody except the bordinates actually employed on the reser wations; and they are to be employed and paid whether the Indian Bureau should be under civil or military administration. But the long line of intermediate officers, from the Commissioner down until you reach the Indian himself, is to be supplied by the detail of officers from the military service; and then a very large proportion of the Present expense would be entirely saved to the Government. Sir, as we have all promised to be short in this matter, I will yield to the Gentfrom Iowa, [Mr. KAssox] upon whose bill introduced on this subject the report of the ComMilAffrs was based, and therefore it is proper he should be heard.