Mr. FESSENDEN. My friendfrom Ohio is a very acute Senator, and therefore I have been very much surprised at the fact that he supposes that any array of figures showing that inevitably the U.S. must be the loser by embarkin itself in any enterprise of this sort, would have an effect upon the Senate when they have a scheme to carry through. The fact that he should be so green as to entertain such a notion as that surprised me very much. I have hardly ever known the time since I have been here that any array of figures showing that the Government must lose, or any clear, palpable proof that a thing was unconstitutional, had apparently more than the slightest effect, the eflect of a ripple, in preventing the passage of a great scheme which had a good deal of money in it. How that happens I do not know and cannot pretend to say; but such has been my observation of the course of legislation for a very considerable time since I have been a member of the senate. Now, sir, from my location, I might be supposed to sympathize a good deal with the honorable Senators from the Pacific coast on this question. I believe they lay it down as a principle that everything that goes to the Pacific l coast is right, in the 1st place, and constitutional in the 2nd, and that it will not do for one of them to vote againstit, under any'circ'um stances, no matter what the argument is, be cause, if they did that, they would be opposing the interests of the Pacific coast; that is to say, they would not be coming up to the standing point on all occasions. They are very clever gentlemen, and I have very great respect and regard for them; but it seems they must stand by their section of country, no matter what the cost to the Goverment and no matter what the result. It is a Pacific coast measure; ergo, it is right; erqo, it is constitutional; ergo, it must be adopted. All this is very acute logic, no doubt; I do not pretend to complain of it; I only say that I am unable to appreciate it, so far as I am concerned. If this road is ever to be built and I take it it will be some da or other it is to be of more advantage on this side of the line to NewEngland comparatively than to any other section of the o (1 country, because there it will terminate substantially; and if beneficial to NewEngland it will be particularly so to what was once the beautiful city in which I happen to live, for that is the terminus of the Grand Trunk railway, and would be substantially the terminus of this road on the Atlantic coast and it would help to make it a great city. Hence I should be exceedingly glad to have it done at an early day. I do not know but that I might say that personally, ifI should live long enough, I might be almost as much interested as an individual in the result as most men who live there, for the reason that at present I am unfortunate enough to own a great many town lots which I can hardly carry, pressing me to the earth, and I should very much like a chance to sell them for a good rice. But, sir, in spite of all this, I cannot give my assent to this bill. more especially at the present ttme. I am very sorry to be placed in so disagreeable a predicament; but after all it is one of those cases in a man’s life where he must meet the necessity of the occasion and act up to his convictions. Mr. President, I did not vote for the Pacific railroad bill. I believe there were 5 votes against it in this body, and one or 2 members did not vote at all. I came into the Senate purposely out of my committee room in order to t now my vote against the bill, but my colleague persuaded me not to do it. He said it was no use; the thing would go through; it was not a pleasant redicament to be in so small a company, and I ad better say nothing about it. I concluded to let it o. The reason why I did not vote for that bil was not that I was not in favor of a Pacific railroad and would not have voted for a Pacific railroad bill if it had been got up according to my ideas of what was honest and true in such a policy. If the government had fixed upon an initial point within its own territory, as near to any State as it saw fit, and surveyed the line and ascertained it to be a good line, and that it was feasible and the best, in the judgment of competent persons, to make a rand railroad line to the Pacific ocean, I should have voted for it and for any expend iture that was necessary to accomplish it. But. when I saw that the effort was to make 3 lines, one north, one central, and one southand I presume it never would have been carried if the southerners had not gone out, so as to let the extreme southern line break down and then when I saw we must make 3 terminatin in the States, one up somewhere in Iowa, another through Missouri, and another somewhere else, I do not exactly know where, but 3 long railroads runnin through the States, taking the public lands in the States inaddition to a grant of the public mone, thus l r1ngingdiverse interests together an combining them upon the principle, “ You tickle my toe and I Will tickle your elbow, ” without much reference to where the line should be for Government purposes, Iregarded it as a mere scheme and bargain, one that ought not to be made, and one that I would not give my assent to under any circumstances. oIdid not vote for it. This is the 2nd step in what was attempted at thattime. That was to make 3 railroads to the Pacific substantially at the expense of the Government. The Government has undertaken for it is substantially that to make one great railroad; and we passed a bill the other day, which I was not in favor of, chau ging that measure in some degree so as to run a parallel line for a considerable distance n bill which, it is said, come near being vetoed ‘ andI should have justified the veto, ‘if there had been one, so far as my vote was concerned. But what is this? ier, for the greater part a wildemess; settlements have not gone there to any considerable extent; but it is a rich country. We have already contracted to build a central railroad, decided upon the route and the point of beginning, and have put the credit of the Government into it, having contracted to pay so much permile. That runs for the most part through a wilderness, but is justified by the necessity of connecting the 2 oceans together. Since that time we have accumulated an enormous debt, a debt that we are taxing the people heavily to ay. Do gentlemen imagine that our credit 0th at home and abroad is to stand every thing? It is as much as we can do to sustain our credit as it is, and it is as much as the people can bear to pay taxes in order to sustain that credit. We have this great central enter prise upon us. It is all that is necessary for the purposes of the Government. That obligation which is upon us goes in part to swell the sum of the debt for which we are responsible, and so far to operate upon the credit of the Government; but notwithstanding thatitis just in its inception, we are just beginning it, and we have got that burden to carry. Notwithstanding this and the enormous debt that is upon us, I have been astonished at the readiness of Congress to assume other and increased obligations. Sir, to this day we do not know and cannot know what the amount of the debt of this Government is, because we have not settled up the claims of this war. It is only within a few days that an obligation, which it is contended we to'ok upon our selves to pay for negroes who enlisted in the war in several of the States, has come upon us from the honorable Senfrom Kentucky, who moved to add to one bill an appropriation of $10,000,000 for the purpose of paying that claim. I am not certain that that is not right. The impression seems to be that that obligation exists. If so, we have got to meet it. In the HoRep, not long since, a bill was passe which, if it becomes alaw, will take $200,000,000 out of the Treasury, confessedly, on the pretense of equalizing the bounties of our soldiers; that is to say, paying a debt which we never contracted, never promised to pay, and never expected to pay, and it passed the House with only 2 or 3 dissenting voices, as I understand. Several members of the House have told me that they were exceedingly ashamed of it, and that if the question could have been taken without reference to the pressure brought from outside on their minds, they did not believe it could have got 20 votes, though I suppose they were mistaken in that respect. That bill, if it ever passes the 2 Houses, in my judment, should have a new title, and that is, “A ill to pay the expenses of electin Sens&Reps of the U.S. out of the public Treasury.” That is about the character of it. That is one item of 200 millions. Now, here comesin a proposition just at this period when all these debts are upon us, when all these unsettled claims are upon us, and these other propositions to increase the amount of the det are upon us, for what purpose? To do anything for the benefit of the Government? To meet any Government necessities? Not at all, except on the principle laid down here the other day, as a great discovery in modern finance, that a man who is deeply in debt must pitch in head over heels in Order to pay it increase his obligations as much and as fast as possible in order to get means to pay his debts! Vlien there is no Government necessity, when we have already contracted to build one line of railroad to the Pacific coast, enough for every Government purpose and answering every government necessity, a road which is not yet completed, here is a prOposition to build another we, substantially, and the Government is to become the indorser of the contracts which may be made in order to carry it into execution, to the amount of $114,000,000, it is said. We have a northern front. But, say gentlemen, the Government is not to pay the principal; it is only to pay the interest. Well, if I have got to pay the interest on' a certain amount of money, I consider myself, generally in debt to that amount, whatever it may be. U have to pay the interest on $5,000 every year I think I owe $5,000 whetherl ever expect to pay it or not. There was a great deal of pertinency and a great deal of his customary kecnness in the observation of my honorable friendfrom Wisconsin [Mr. Hows] just now, that here, on the supposition that this road is to cost $150,000,000, the company in its goodness, to which we have given 47 million acres of lands to build it, consents that we shall have one 4th of the net profits to secure us our payment of interest on $95,000,000, while they retain the other 3/4ths to secure themselves the interest of $55,000,000. A very liberal proposition! In fact, we are to build the road by our credit, for it is ours they have not any and to become responsible to that amount and to trust luck for the future. The road is to run through what is a wilderness now, and must remain comparatively so for a great series of years, not, to be sure, so long as it would be if we did nothing in that section of country. It is true the road will extend our settlements, and we shall secure another line to the Pacific ocean; but we are to undertake this before we have completed the 1st one to which we are pledged, and before we have made anything more than a barely appreciable progress in building Now, sir, whativilithe of us as financiers? What will they think 0 this reckless legislation, piling on $100,000,000 here or $200,000,000 there, $10,000,000 here and $20,000,000 there? We had a scheme n the other day which I should be in favor of if it could be properly and decently done, and that is aship canal around the falls of Niagara. That bill began with a.cost of$0,000,000, to end, I suppose, with $60,000,000 or $100,000,000. At this time, with so much on our hands to do, the idea that Government should under take the new enterprise of indorsing paper for schemes that are got up, to the amount of $150,000,000, to begin in a new country to build a 2nd railroad to the Pacific, strikes me as about the strongest and strangest prop position that could be entertain d and indulged in by sensible men who are loci ring out for the true interests of their whole country, the pres ervation of its credit, and the preservation of its reputation for sense and common, decent, prudent management that I ever heard of in my life. I dare say I am mistaken, because I am not a business man. I do not understand these matters or how they are to be arranged. I confess I do not see how you are to make so much money by engaging in this business. I do not understand how we are to increase our credit by connecting ourselves with schemes of this kind, when they are not absolutely necessarily called for by an public necessity. It is a new idea to me, an being a new idea to me, it is not possible that I can give my assent to it at present. Now, sir, I know something about the way this has gone on. I will say to the Senfrom Oregon that no matter whether there was authority to make a contract or not, I happen to know that it was the cat boast of this company to whom the land grant was made that they asked no money.