Mr. INGERSOLL. This in my judgment does not necessarily follow; but as the proposition of the gentleman is all on our. do not propose to combat it. They are States for our purposes, but not for their own, [laughter d so he says. That they are States in the lega sense of the term I deny; they are Territories, nothing more, and as such are subject to the control of Congress, the lawmaking power of the Government. But this question I have no desire to debate further with the Gentfrom Ohio, [Mr. BINGHAM, ] for he lays down the proposition that these are States for Federal purposes, and that it is at our option whether we will recognize them or not as States as regards local legislation or State government. Now, I do not know how I could go further than that. Who could go further? hen a State government destroys its civil and political organization surely it ceases to be a State. But let this ass. p The POTUS, in his proclamation to Governor Holden, declared that the State of NCarolina by the rebellion had become “deprived of all civil government, ” and by just inference had ceased to be a State. It is by and through its political organization that a State lives, moves, and has a being. When the State government becomes defunct there is nothing left but a dead hulk. Thus much I have said in regard to the status of these go called States, and I think I have established the fact to the satisfaction of reasonable and intelligent men that they are but territories of the U.S., and subject rightfully to the exclusive control of Congress. And now, sir, a few words with regard to this particular bill. Whether it be the wisest and est measure that can be conceived I will not attempt to say; what will be the effect of it. it become a law I will not attempt to describe; what hindrances will be thrown in the way of its operation by the POTUS I can ho imagine; what power he may exercise to delay, hinder, and trammel the operations of the law I ean hardly conceive. But before I go further upon this point, I desire to call your attention to the fact that this is a measure looking to the pacification of the rebel States and not to their reconstruction. Now, suppose we lay aside, for the moment, the “rebel States” and talk about the reconstruction of the people of those States. The people, not the States, have been making war upon our Government. Then let us dea with the people, and when we have succeeded in reconstructing them, the States, it may then be said, are reconstructed. Whenever you can throw around the loyal people of the southern States the protection. enforced, if needs be, by military power, you will form a nucleus around which we can rally all the Union sentiment of this now suffering and outraged people, and it will grow and expand into a power that will reconstruct those territories upon a loyal basis and restore them to the Union regener ated and redeemed from treason. But, sir, I will not dwell upon this subject. The labor of the last Congress and of this Congress, so far in the work of reconstruction, has been labor lost. What real progress has been made? The President has tried for nearly 2 years his policy, and Congress has attempted from time to time to put in operation some plan of reconstruction, but by reason of the opposition of the President and his friends they i.all been defeated. The President's policy has not proved to be a success. It is a miserable failure. The JtCom on Reconstruction have reported this bill to the House and recommend its passage, and I am sure that no member need hesitate to vote for it, for if it become a law it cannot make matters worse than they now are, and it may make them better. Something should be done, and done at once. The condition of things there has been growing worse from day to ðay since the day of their surrender. Crime is holding a high carnival there; industry is in a great measureparalyzed; the Congress is repudiated and denounced as an unconstitutional body, and the laws of Congress are continually pronounced unconstitutional by the courts of these States, and all that stands in the way of the restoration of the rebel aristocracy to power is crushed out }. violence or by the decision of their courts. gentlemen object to this bill because it proposes to place the people of those States under military authority; but we must remember that these are rugged times, and that to remedy the state of things that exist rugged measures must be resorted to. The resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitution was submitted to them in good faith in the hope that it might be ratified and form an equitable basis for the reconstruction of those States: But so far as those States have acted upon it they have rejected it. The exercise of civil power under the President's policy has been tried and proved unavailing. Shall this condition of things last always, or shall we try some more stringent measure in the hope that it will result in the restoration of harmony and of peace? This bill may not, possibly, effect the object desired, but it will have this effect if no other: it will topple over these spurious governments set up by the power of presidential usurpation; it. o teach those people that they must look to Congress and not to the President for the terms of peace and reunion. It will teach the President that the lawmaking power does not intend to yield its right to pass upon the validity of any government that may be formed in these States; it will inform him that he is not the lawmaking power of the government, but simply the Executive to execute the will of the loyal people as expressed by their Representatives in Congress. But more than this I will not say it will accomplish, for I am satisfied that the President will do half in his power to defeat the object sought to be attained in this bill. Judging from what he has done in the past I have a right to anticipate his action in the future. This bill purposely withholds from the President the power to assign the generals who are to command the various districts, and vests that power in GenlGrant. This is i. one of the features in the bill. The loyal people know that they can trust GenlGrant. e has been weighed in the balance and not found wanting. This in itself guaranties a fearless, honest, and faithful execution of the powers contained in the bill. I have no fear in vesting this power in the General of our armies, for I believe he will exercise it wisely, prudently, and firmly, as he has exereised all the other powers that have been conferred upon him, and he will appoint iudicious and A. generals to command these districts. In judging of the fitness, capacity, and qualifications of an officer he has probably no superior in the world. But I am met by the objection that the Pres: ident is Commander in Chief of the Army, and that he may rescind any order that GenlGrant may make under the provisions of this bill. I reply that the President by virtue of his being Commander in Chief of the armies may rescind any order that the General in his discretion may make. The President is made by the Constitution for the time he exercises the functions of that office the superior officer of GenlGrant, and as such superior officer he may possess the power to supervise, change, or rescind an order of the General, but the question is, will he have the temerity to do it in the face of and in violation of this law? If this bill becomes a law it is not assuming too much to say that GenlGrant will promulgate the necessary orders to carry it into execution. He will as sign the various generals selected by himself to the command of these several districts. I am asked in case he does, what is there to prevent the President from rescinding such orders at once? I answer, perhaps nothing except a wholesome fear as to the consequences of the act. As a mere question of power I admit that the President would have the power to rescind any order which GenlGrant might make in as signing generals under this bill to their various commands. But I ask again, will he dare to assume the responsibility of interfering in such manner? I am asked again, if the President has the power to rescind orders of GenlGrant, why pass this bill? I respond, pass the bill and place the responsibility of any interference in its operations with the President.