Mr. RAYMOND. I have no objection to a colloquy of that kind. I think it perhaps the best way to get at the truth. I am indebted to the House or its courtesy, though I am very much afraid I shall abuse it. The Gentfrom Massachusetts endeav ors to escape from the specific point I made by taking refuge in general sentiments and dec larations. He says there is such a difference bettveen a State that has been and one that has not been in rebellion as to preclude all argument on the subject. He would draw the inference that we have a right to do with the one what we lease, while with the other we can do only wiiat the Constitution rescribes. I say that, while wide differences o unquestionably exist between them in very many most important respects, in their relations to the Constitution and in our relations to them under the Constitution they stand on exactly the same footing. I say that the powers conferred upon us under the Constitution with reference to one State must be exercised with regard to any other State, and thntno other powers can be exercised rightfully, justly, and in accordance with the Constitution of the U.S. I take is sue, though I do not care to argue the question, with those who take refuge in the fact that a.State has done wrong, has been in rebellion, has waged war upon the Government, as an excuse or as a reason for violating the Constitution themselves in dealing with that State. We are acting under an oath to obey, defend, and protect the Constitution of the U.S. I will not judge the consciences of other men; but I do not feel at liberty to do anything toward SCarolina and Georgia which the Constitution does not authorize me to do toward other States in the Union I mean by denying them rightsin the Government which is Constitution in express terms confers upon em. I admit that we have a right to take precautions and to secure ourselves against future rebellion; but we must do it in accordance with the Constitution. We cannot claim unlimited discretion. And my great objection to this bill is, that it establishes a principle, so far as our action can establish a principle, of which those holding secession principles, or principles opposite to us, may avail themselves to deal with us as we now propose to deal with them. There have been times in the history of the country when, if such aprinciple as this had been established by the previous action of Congress, the men in power would have applied it to Massachusetts, and you would have found men here, with all the power of the Government at their command, ready to deprive Massachusetts of representation upon this floor because that State did not and would not enforce the fugitive slave law.