Mr. GUTHRIE. Mr. President, I have examined this matter as carefully and as con; siderately as opportunity has allowed me to do. We owe a pretty large debt, $2, 700,000000, with additons yet to be provided for. A large portion of it will mature ihthe course of a few years. More than 800 millions of 7 l 30 notes are to be provided for within 3 years. There is a large amount of bonds due in a short time. We have the interest on all to provide for as it becomes due; we have to provide for the principal as it matures. I suppose there is no gentleman on this fioorthat has greater confidence than mysolfin the ability of this Government to meet this debt, and, indeed, if necessity required it, to meets larger debt than this; but then I think prudence requires that we should timely provide, not only or the interest, but for the future payment or funding of the principal as it becomes due. The SecyTreasury, as the financial minister of this Government, is charged with the payment of the interest of this debt, charged also under our laws and the expectation of our people with the payment of the principal as it matures, and niider the legislation of Congress we expect him to my that debt as it becomes due. It is due to this government that it should be done, that a failure to pay 50 or 100 millions of this debt when it matures shall not take place a failure that would alfect the credit of the government and throw discredit 0n the intelligence of COngress all over the world. I am not so sure as the Senfrom Ohio is that this is not the propertime for providing for the payment of the maturing debt. The 800 and odd millions he does not set down; but itsupplics the place of currency, and should be so regarded. It ought to be provided for, and thus we come to the aid of that pressure in the money market which all men of experience and men ofhistorical knowl edge expected to follow the close of this war. There has never been a great struggle in Eng Iond that has not reduced a monetary strict ure between the high money prices of war and the reduced prices of peace. I do not think it would be very wise hastily, suddenly, without the preparation of the country, to bring up the notes that we have paid out at a discount in the payment of our debts contracted during the war to aspecie standard, and give their holders specie forthem. If I was managing the finances of the Government I do not think I would take in any of the ordinary legal tender notes, particularly while I could get interest bearing notes. The Government has been almost the sole purchaser of the productions of this country or the last 5 years, and of a large portion of the labor. By the use of legal tender notes and other issues we paid the persons from whom we obtained our. supplies of men, money, and means for carrying on the war. Now, we are distributing it no longer, except to the extent of the inwrest and the maintenance of the civil Government and the reduced Army and Navy that we keep. In the transition of the industry of the country and the sources of so ly from the Government to individuals, the history of all nations and all times has showa where there is stricture in the money market. The government that has paid the laborers, the government that has paid for the productions of the looms, the Government that has paid for the wheat and the corn and the oats and the productions of the forest and the production of the mines, ceases to buy them; others must be found to purchase, and to make a new distribution of the relation of purchaser and seller is a slow process. The Senfrom Ohio says the amount of the currency ought to be fixed. There would be some advantage in a fixed currency if there was no credit beyond that; but in all the catas trophes that have happened to the currency of the country and in monetary strictures it has not. been the amount of money, but the amount of available credit, that swelled prices and led to commercial fatalities. At the period of our last commercial revulsion we had probably a papercurrency in this country not exceeding $500,000,000, and yet $5,000,000,000 would not cover the mercantile and individual creditsthat swelled prices, increased debts, and aggravated the calamities of the commercial crisis. We are now in a transition state; the Government has been sole purchaser and sole distributor of money; we are etting back to the slow process by which it falis into otherhands and labor is paid and production is paidb others. such a state of things has always 10 to a commercial crisis; and if we have one we shall have it within the 2 years which are coming and during that time a wise financial polic, in my judgment, would provide for as muc of our debt as it is possible to provide for. If I were in the place of the SecyTreasury I wouldp do just exactly as he has been doing. I would use the surplus money to take up the issues of interest bearing notes and put them out of the way, ifI had a surplus not necessar for the other demands of the Government. would put him in a situation to continue this, and I hope that he will be able to accomplish it, so that at no one period of time would so much of the public debt fall due as to create trouble and apprehension or combinations between moneyed men and the Government of the U.S. I have made up my mind that there is nothing n this bill that a wise man may not fairly confide to an officer ofhigh character, and certainly of considerable financial ability, who has his reputation and his character before the nation and the world at stake on the manner in which e administers his duty. If I were in that place I would prefer that you should lay down exactly what I should do, so tbatI should incur no risks, so that I should be able to say, “ Hero is the law; I cannot sell your bonds and pay your debts in the way you pointed out; it was impossible to do it; you have taken the respon sibility, and the credit of the nation has lostits prestige; lyou have failed in the high obligation which every great people must show of meeting its debts punctually and properly and providing for them fairly; it rests with you, Gentlemen.” I would not like the responsibility of action. Still, if I intended that the debt should be paid, I would allow this great otheer intrusted with the payment of it some latitude and some discretion. Some may say the liberties of the people, the prosperity of the nation, will be endangered if we elegate such vast powers to the SecyIreasury. When we call a man to the Presidency, when we put a general at the head of our armies, we intrust him with vast powers, vastly greater Secretary of the treasury, and we have no choice. We are obliged to confide in them these powers are necessary for great times and occasions. I happen to know the SecyTreasury individually, and have known him for some years. He lived in the neighboring State of Indiana, and had character and reputation as a banker; I met him in bank conventions between Indiana and Kentucky when we were consulting upon very interesting subjects, and I always found him to be an intelligent, honest, straight forward, high minded, an up right man, and I bear that testimony to him now. I suppose it is not improper tomention Mr. Secretary Chase in this connection; and I thought he was imbued with Mr. Secretary Chases grand notion of putting down the rebellion and being able to resume specie payments within 60 or 90 days. I thought that he was a little imbue with that notion, and I took occasion to remark to him in the course of conversation, “Mr. Secretary, we have got 1st to put down this rebellion before we think of resuming specie payments; that is an afterwork;” and O turned to me very kindly and said, “I do not think of doing it before w. but down the rebellion; ” and then I felt that Fhad done injustice to him in nuposing that he had not looked at the who O ground. Now, I have no doubt he is anxious to sat isfy that portion of the country who are imputient about specie payments and the effect of a de reciated) currency. I think it is right that we should all steadily look forward to the propriety at the earliest practicable period, without any hazard to any great interest, and without making grand fortunes for individuals by the operation, of bringing up the papermoney to the standard of specie. When I was in the Treasury Dept I had a surplus of money, and the difficulty was to know what to do with it. I was running a race with Congress to see whether I could pay more of the public money than they would appropriate for private excases as the law le tit open to me to do. had no difficulty powers than we confide to the about money, but I could not keep my mind from running upon the thought, what will this Government do in the event of an internal struggle or a contest with foreign nations in an arduous war? and I came to the conclusion that it would have to resortto excliequer notes, just as was done during the war. My judgment is that you could not have lived through the war without them. My judgment is that the confederates failed when their currency failed. When it went down, and they could no longer pay their troops, there was no hope for them. I considered then the rebellion substantitlly at an end; it was but a question of a campaign after that. Our people have borne taxation well admirably we 1. Many of them have large in comes and I would not advise that the income tax should be taken off. They are the men who have money, and in appealing to the people for money I know of no better way of et ting it than to call on those who have it. iit in the commercial relations of the U.S., particularly in our foreign commerce, debts are created. I have no objection to pay,ing those debts with gold from the mines. I have felt that the productions of the mines were a part of the national wealth just as much as theiproductions of the field or the forest, and that we had a right to look to them and use them in paying our balances with foreign nations. In the transition state which generally followga long and protracted war we may expect a diminution of commerce. There may be a diminution in the reduction of our provision States, so that they will not be able to supply our manufacturers, and enable them to compete with the other manufacturing nations. Our trade hitherto has been pretty well kept up, but there may be a diminution ofcominerce, and then our people will be less able to pay. We shall then have fewer large incomes to call upon. There will be fewer products from the manufacturing districts, fewer from the agricu [ tural districts; there will be diminished ability to ay taxes. Now is the time to do what this bil provides for, before that takes place, as, in my judgment, it must and will take place sooner or later; for in the history of no country that has passed through the excitements of war and war prices, and come back to eace prices, is there a solitary instance where it has not occurred. Sir, I believe we are able to pay our national debt. I believe a repudiation of it would do more injury to this nation before the nations of the world than even the success of the rebellion. We have now established our warlike character before the nations of the world; let no take care that in winding up this war and restoring peace we leave no stain on the honesty and credit oft he nation. I do not believe there is a man within the sound of my voice, and there is no class of pen la in any portion of the country with whom I have s oken, that do not want to pay the debt, and hat do not think we ought to pay it. Occasionally you will hear men say, “ When you restore specie payments, are you going to pay those men who only gave 50 or 60 cents to the dollar for their bonds the full specie face value of the bonds?” That was the great outery in England when they resumed specie payments, and there was a strong party made against those who brought it about; but still England resumed specie payments, and England has become the money center of the world and has engrossed a great portion of its commerce. I am not one of those who believe that Englands moneyed superiority is to keep always as it is now or as it has been for the last 50 years. If we are true to ourselves, true to the bequest made us by the framers of our Constitution, true to the large country that we govern, we shall bring the commercial center to NewYork and vie with England in commerce; and I believe we shall make another great city on the west, competing with her for the trade of the eastern world, and throwing into this country all its rich benefits and advantages, and that SanFrancise o will rise up a competitor of NewYork in the commercial business of the country; and we shall all rejoice more and more with a restored Government with maintained credit, and with commercial prosperity, and shall all be proud of our portion and interest in this Government. In this connection I cannot bntin all honesty and candor express the regret which I feel that we have failed to bring back all the States to their places in the Union. I have no doubt that many who have not been as anxious, and who perhaps would not have gone as far as I was prepared to go to accomplish that result, desire the achievement of it as 1 do; but they have been here fighting these battles while I have been a looker on in another State. I thought at the beginning of this war what I have since expressed I expressed it so early as in the Peace Convention that we were in danger of having 2 military despotisms. There was one in the South, and I hope we shall take care, that having bee. but down, that there shall not be one erected ere. Now, I am sorry to differ from the Senfrom Ohio. I am not for increasing the pay or money; I think it ought to be reduced. The paperof this country now is actually 15 or 1600 million dollars, because I think the compound interestnotes and the 7thirties are substantially money, and take and occupy the place of money, and when we provide for paying them we increase the money capital of the cOuntry and its capacity for business. I have made up my mind deliberately, after examining all the phases in whichl could view this bill, that it is necessary and proper to intrust this power to the SecyTreasury. I thin we ought to do it now. The allegation that a power may be abused is not always a good argument with me, because there is much in the surroundings of the men who are to execute your law to prevent an abuse of granted powers. Indeed, I think that rarely occurs among high officers of standing and character.