Mr. DODGE. Not at all; and I am glad to be interrupted to make the disclaimer. I differ, Mr. Speaker, entirely with this side of the House in assuming as they do that the States lately in rebellion are out of the Union. I am not a constitutional lawyer, and not prepared to argue the question in a constitutional way. Looking at it in a common sense way I think we have already recognized these States as States in the Union by submitting to them the constitutional amendment for the abolishment of slavery. I assume, sir, it was impossible for them to have constitutionally ratified that amendment without being States in the Union. It was be: cause they were States that it was subtnitted to them. At the last session we recognized, although they had in a certain sense lost their relations to the Government, that they were still States in the Union. In a discussion in this House in 1862 on the admission of WestVirginia, this whole subject was very fully con: sidered, and I quote from the remarks of Speaker Col.FAx: “Two things are required by the Constitution of the U.S. for the admission of this new State: design is, to get the JtResolution before the 1st, the assent of the Legislature of the State out of Congress is to be formed; and 2nd ly, the assentof upon The decision then turns to a great extent the question whether the Governor now acting a; the Governor of Virginia, and residing at Wheel ine r, and the Legislature to which he communicates his messages, are really the Governor and Legislature of the loyal peopleof {}. I think they are, and that the history of events in Virginia will prove that fact.” 4. sk e. “The next question is, has this loyal Legislature been recognized? There are facts enough in the action of the various branches of this Government to prove to us that they have, one and all, fully and in vriagrhiotfuusl gwoavyesrn recognized this as the only true and of Virginia. Allow me to prescut a few of them: “ 1st. The Senate of the U.S. has recognized this Legislature as the Legislature of the State ef V if ginia, and admitted 2 Senators elected by that body to fill vacancies caused by treason as the rightfully chosenSenators of Virginia. That wasdone alongst unanimously by that body.” ". "., “I say, then, that not only the 2 legislative branches of the Government, but that the POTUS and the various membersof the Cabinet have, without dissent and without protest, as far as I have heard, by anyone up to this day, recognized Governor Peirpoint and the Wheeling Legislature as the rightful authority in Virginia i it therefore seems to be a . settled and concluded and the consent of this Legislature to ivision the of the State is sufficient to bring it within the purview of the Constitution.” It appears to me that the State of Virginia was recognized then as a State, and the government under Governor Peirpoint was regarded as the constitutional government, competent to give its assent to the division of a portion of its territory and have it formed into a new State. Then, again, we have treated them as States by sending to them the various amendments to the Constitution that passed this House at its last session. I am sure that a oof the members of this House at least fully expected that these amendments would be sent to the Legislatures of the southern States for ratification. If they had seen fit to have ratified them had it not been for the influences that were thrown around them in high quarters; had it not been for the Philadelphia convention and all the influences that emanated from that; had it not been the expectation on the part of the South that there would be another party in the country which would sustain the policy of the President; had they not been flattered and made to believe that if they refused to ratify the amendments they would yet be admitted to representation in Congress I verily believe that a sufficient number of the southern States would have ratified the amendments to have made them, with the help of the northern States, a part of the organic law of the country. I regret that these amendments could not have been ratified. I believe they were wisely designed to promote that peace and harmony which are necessary for the best interest of this entire country. They do not attempt to interfere with the constitutional rights of the States in regard to suffrage, but they do make a proper arrangement for the changed condition of things resulting from the emancipation of slaves and the destruction of slavery. They declare that if any portion of the people recently made free by the constitutional amendment and thus become citizens of the U.S. are deprived of the right of suffrage they shall not count in the basis of representation. We all know from the past history of the South that their desire has ever been to secure their full amount of ol. influence in the country, and that desire would have led them ere long to have passed such laws as would have eventually enfranchised the negro race. They have not seen fit to do it. These amendments were sent forth to the country as the result of 6 long months of careful deliberation on the part o the ComReconstruction. The loyal portion of the country I beg pardon of my colleague, [Mr. RADfood;] I will aime.nd by."; the radical portion of the which, I presume, will satisfy him the radical or toniof, portion of the people were almost universally satisfied with the report of the committee of 15, resulting in the sage of the JtResolution amending the constitution. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that if these Resolutions had been adopted, had been ratified by the States, and become a part of the organic law of the land, there would have been universal satisfaction throughout the country. When it was found that they were not likely, at present at least, to be adopted by the southern States, then the country looked anxiously to the deliberations of this House to what we would propose next. The country is to: looking at us now as the focal point from which is to emanate something that shall give peace, harmony, and prosperity to the country and perpetuity to the Government. And now, when the session is half over, we are about to present to the country the bill of the honorable Gentfrom Pennsylvania, or the substitute by the Gentfrom Ohio, [Mr. AsHLEY] I have very carefully read these 2 bills or the bill and the proposed amendment, and I fail to find in either the original bill or in the amendment of the Gentfrom Ohio anything that to my mind promises peace, union, and happiness as the result of its passage. hold that it is of the very 1st importance that at the earliest possible day there should be a reconciliation let me use that term between the North and South; that there should be a permanent reconciliation; that as far as possible, considering the nature of man, we should forget and forgive the past so far as it is right and proper. And in passing laws here having that in view, we should be careful not to pass those that, from the very nature of man, must be calculated to irritate and perpetuate the very difficulties that now tend to separate us. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that in the very desultory remarks I am making I shall not be understood as having no sympathy with the loyal men of the South who have been and still are suffering under the continued rule of the majority there, or as having no sympathy with the emancipated colored man, or as having no feeling for those who are being shot down, imprisoned, whipped, and deprived of their rights under the law. I feel as much sympathy for them as any gentleman on this floor. And yet I cannot divest myself of the feeling that to a certain extent just such a state of things was naturally to be expected from so sudden a change in the civil and social relations which have existed in the South for the last 100 ears. It was hardly to be expected it would have been a miracle if it had been so that immediately upon this sudden and almost in stantaneous severing of the relations which had existed between master and slave there should have been nothing to irritate; that there should have been no men of such unnatural feelings as would lead them to refuse to do justice to the emancipated negroes. We must all know that there are men North as well as South who are hard hearted, unfeeling men that seem to have no sense of right or justice. But, sir, I do not say this as an apology for the wrongs done to the freedmen or for the cruel manner in which they have been and still are treated, in defiance of the civil rights bill, which we passed last year, and in despite of the provisions of the Freedmen's Bureau bill, which were all calculated to shield the freedman from the dangers which surround him. I make no apology for the wrongs done to them. I sympathize with the colored man as much as any gentleman upon this floor; but at the same time I cannot divest myself of the feeling that it was reasonable for us to expect for a certain length of time that there might be irritation and difficulty in administering the laws. What is wanted is something that will secure quiet and better feeling between the North and the South, and at the same time better feeling between southern men and the freedmen. And we want this because the southern country is part of our own. We fought for 4 long years that we might continue one undivided people, and if these southern States are still to be kept year after year in this state of disquietude we at the North, sympathizing with them in our social and business relations, must to a certain extent suffer with them. We want to devise some plan, equitable, just, and reasonable, that shall, if possible, bring about a state of peace, union, and harmony between the North and the South. I cannot see, Mr. Speaker, that either in the bill or the amendment there is anything cal culated to bring about such a result. In the constitutional amendment we made a proner provision for the punishment, if I may use that expression, of the prominent men who were engaged in the rebellion. We disfranchished them for a certain length of time of the right to hold office under the Government. The bill proposed here, with the amendment, provides that every man who was 21 years of age in 1861, and who has engaged in any way or held office under the socalled confederate government, or who has taken an oath to support that government which, if I understand it, includes all the private soldiers in the confederate army shall be disfranchised. They are to be deprived of all civil rights and to be placed in the position of aliens. They can only acquire the rights of citizenship as foreigners acquire them; by giving notice of their intention they become citizens in 5 years; by taking, an oath, under the most fearful penalties, that from March, 1864, until the close of the war, they would have been. if opportunity had offered, to have done anything to have brought the war to a close; that they had no sympathy with the war after that time, and that they would, if opportunity had presented itself, have accepted the amnesty offered by President Lincoln and left the confederate government. How large a proportion of the southern people could come forward and honestly take that oath 2.The result of the passage of this bill, if it shall become opera tive, will be to disfranchise nearly the entire white population of the southern States, and at the same time enfranchise the colored people and give them the virtual control in the proposed organization of the new State governments. submit as adictate of common sense, taking mankind as we find them, as we know they are, is it natural to suppose that the passage of such a law as this will be calculated to promote increased friendly relations between the North and South, to create a better feeling between the white and the colored population? I assume that that should be the object of the laws which we pass, as well as to protect in all their civil rights the loyal white man and the freedman. I can see nothing either in the orginal bill or in the proposed substitute which is calculated to increase or create any good feeling between the North and South. It is not natural that they should love us while we are putting them under such a ban. Under this bill, if they shall ever be formed into States, all the men who have ever held office under the confederate government are to be entirely disfranchised. Mr. Speaker, if we had gone before our State at the last election and had proposed as a plan for reconstruction and settling the dif ficulties existing between the North and South the plan contained in this bill and the amendment, I have no hesitation in saying we would have lost the State of NewYork. I do not know what was the course pursued in other States, but when we went into the canvass in the State of NewYork we took our stand upon the amendment to the Constitution and as sumed that we intended to hold the South where they were until they should see fit to ratify that amendment.