Mr. NESMITH. The comparison made by the Senfrom Ohio between the expenses of the Indian Bureau in 1848 and prior to that time, with what they are now, it seems to me does not demonstrate anything. The expenses may have been a million dollars then, or half a million, and may be in the neighborhood of 2 or 3 millions now; and yet that proves nothing. At that time our Indian frontier was on the Missouri river. Since then our intercourse with the Indians tribes has spread to the Pacific and reaches from the 49th paral lel of latitude on the north to the Gulf of California, or near that gulf, on the south. We have been brought in contact with the great tribes of the plains and the Rocky mountains, and it has become necessary to purchase more or less of their land by treaty stipulations, and to supply them with annuities and goods. We have been brought in much more direct intercourse with them. Probably the business of the dept in this way has increased in a much greater ratio than the expense. So far as the evils complained of are to be remedied. I think it is a mistake to suppose that it will be done by changing the bureau from the Interior to the War Dept. There is a peculiar adaptability in the Interior Dept for the management of this business, particularly so far as our Indian affairs upon the Pacific coast are concerned. Our relations there with the Indians are confined principally to the management of their lands, their farms, and their reservations, and that is a dept of the Government whichis pecu liarly under the control of the SecyInterior. To make the change proposed and transfer all this business to the military authorities, where there is but little exerience in relation to these details, would, think, be disastrous at present, and I prefer not to see it done. I do not know how far it is contemplated by the measure now preposed to supersede the present civil officers, and make military officers the agents and superintendents. So far as my own experience goes I know it is difficult to find details from the Army to fill these offices. The officers of the Arm are generally engaged and their time occupie with business relating directly to their own profession. The companies, battalions, and regiments stationed on the frontier are generally too destitute of officers to permit of many being detailed for this service. Another great objection to this whole plan would be the constant changing of officers. For instance, if a lieutenant or a captain in command of a post today in the vicinity of Indians should assume the duty of Indian agent; tomorrow or next week he may be ordered to a distant art of the country, and what advantages he had)gained by acquaintance and familiarity with the Indians is entirely lost to his successor. A new man comes and assumes the duties of the office of Indian u out by virtue of his position in the Army. c has everything to learn of the details which are connected with the transactions of the office. Why, sir, it requires years for persons to become informed of all the details of the different treaties, the laws of Congress regulating the intercourse with the tribes, and the specifie treaties applicable to particular tribes; t 6 appropriations, the balances of appropriations, and the proper distribution of annuities, are questions which require years of experience to become familiar with. Our dept as at present organized is in the hands of civilians who have made this their study, and in most instances they have become familiar with the subject. I think that at present the dept is well managed, and I do not believe that at this time the proposed change would be for the benefit of the country or o the Indians, and I trust the amendment will not be ado ted. ltIia HENDRICKS. I will not vote for this proposition, in the 1st place, because it is a proposition to legislate generally upon an appropriation bill. I think the purpose ofan appropriation bill is to provide means to carry on the Government according to existing laws. It is an unfortunate thing to legislate in an appropriation bill. In the 2nd place, I shalF not vote for the measure because I do not think the business of managin our Indians is a military business; it is a civi duty that is devolved upon the proper officers. Judging from the speeches thm are made it would seem to be a question whether the Indians are to be governe by force, or fraud, or both. Now, sir, that there have been some frauds in the management of our Indian affairs I do not question; but I think that a comphrison of expenditures of money under Army olIicers and under officers connected with the Indian Bureau would not be unfavorable to the officers of the civil bureau, although it might not be very favorable to either. If we are to judge by the charges that have been made during the last 5 years, we should say there is scarcely any person to be trusted now connected with the ndian service or connected with the Army. lthink these charges are exaggerations; but I am not going to discuss that. I do not take it that men in the Army are any more honest than they are anywhere else. Men will make money, it seems, if they have the opportunity to do so. The only guarantee the public can have for a faithful expenditure of money is that which the law secures. If we are going to fight the Indians, of course we ought to place them under the control and rule of the Army. If that is to be the policy of the country, that they are simply to be governed by force, the proposition of the Senfrom Ohio is right; but if we are going to feed them and educate them as far as we can, and by a wise and kind policy govern them, then they ought to be under the control of the Interior Dept. If we are ready to come to the reposition that the Indians are simply to he ought, I am in favor of utting them under the control of the Army. but if we are to execute treaties fairly and honestly toward the Indians, treat them, as I think they ought to be treated, as kindly as we can, preserve them as long as we can, then I think their management ought to be under some civil Dept of the Government.